Fabulous Fern’s

October 18, 2006 at 1:01 pm (Uncategorized)

Once again we had a great turn out. There were a few people absent, but all in all the core group was there. The discussion was all over the map and nowhere near where we thought it would be. We began to talk about the pub night as an intro to some of the new comers who had not joined us before. There were about four new faces with us last night so it was imperative that we give a glimpse of the vision, and past of pub nights. That conversation then lead smoothly into the issue of emerging churches and christian philosophy within branching denominations.

The subject of worship was brought up in a most unusual way. Why do we put so much emphasis on music in our worship service. Is there too much music in the church. Maybe we need to cut back and focus on a more gathering, sharing, and teaching. I personally thought the point was valid. It seems that no matter what your music preference is the real issue is left unresolved. The real issue isn’t did we make enough people happy this morning with our line up. It should be how did we minister to the congregation as a whole in more ways than just singing. Music has lost so much of it’s impact on the church these day because it’s so debated, and argued about that it’s not even healthy. The meaning of a song is completely lost by a nit picky congregation that doesn’t like this or that about the way it was done. The message is still there we just don’t see it.

We also touched briefly on the topic of Christians, and adult beverages. I’m sure Jason can explain that whole argument better than I so I shall let him comment. Personally for me it is a good way to calm me down in the evening or in a social setting. Once in a while it is refreshing to sip a beer, and coupled with good discussion it’s grand.

For the better part of the time we mingled in the creation verses evolution debate. For the most part we were all on the same page the God did create the earth. The question we asked was how. There is evidence out there to support an old earth and the lineage of biblical accounts supports a young earth. Could there have been a lapse in the time between God creating the earth and God creating man. We came the conclusion if you can call it a conclusion. That there are several un-decifered actions that happened in Genesis. Personally I am glad that there are people willing to throw out idea’s as to the age of the earth and so on. I don’t think will ever fully wrap our minds around the great act of creation in this life.

Calvin yes I said it Calvinism was one of the last topics we hit on briefly. Someone mentioned a friend who was a Calvinist who was asking people questions. He ask is your God a God of Love or a God of justice. The immediate response was both! Once again I will let Jason comment on this topic.

Tentatively we will meet at keegan’s Irish pub next month.  Same time in the evening 7:00pm on the 14th of Nov.

4 Comments

  1. Jason Blair said,

    October 18, 2006 at 1:48 pm

    We did indeed have a great time. As for the alcohol discussion, it seems that this is largely an American Evangelical (and often Baptist) issue. Many Christians in other parts of the world see the “controversy” over moderate alcohol consumption as a non-issue.

    If anyone wants to look into it further, though, I will recommend the following links from Michael Spencer, a.k.a. The Internet Monk:

    One Big Happy Lie: Southern Baptists, Alcohol, and Me
    http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/one-big-happy-lie-southern-baptists-alcohol-and-me

    The SBC Resolution on Alcohol: A Matter of Shame
    http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/a-matter-of-shame

    Now, the first line of defense one will encounter when speaking of moderation is the argument that we must not cause a weaker brother to stumble. This comes up in far more discussions than that of alcohol. To that, I submit another post from Mr. Spencer.

    The Tyranny of the Offended
    http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/the-tyranny-of-the-offended

    As for Calvinism, I really try to avoid this discussion. For the most part, I don’t have any quarrels with reformed theology. In fact, much of my thinking lines up with the Reformed world. Their love of sound doctrine is worthy of emulation as people who test all things according to the scriptures, much like the Bereans in Acts.

    However, there are many rabid Calvinists who, in my opinion, get so bogged down in the “how” of salvation that they miss the point of the gospel. This is debatable among many Christians, but to my thinking, Jesus is the point. He lived, died, and rose again according to the scriptures for the salvation of those who answer him in repentance and faith. When this message is replaced by the mechanics of how salvation is accomplished, then we may still be talking theology, but we aren’t talking about the Good News. That’s all I’ll say about that, becasue it’s enough to start wars when I’d rather work side-by-side with my Calvinist brothers and sisters to preach the gospel and see people turn from sin and trust Jesus as Lord.

    One last thing: When we arrived at Fern’s, we asked for a specific server. My wife and I have been there many times with friends from Tae Kwon Do, and we’ve come to like this person a great deal. We found out, to our surprise and delight, that she has very recently become a believer. For that, I want to thank God, and ask people to pray for her that she might be surrounded by wise and loving Christians, and that she would begin the grand adventure of growing in grace and knowledge of the Lord Jesus Christ.

    Peace,
    Jason

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  2. Thompson Aderinkomi said,

    November 1, 2006 at 11:06 pm

    Oh, I wish I could have been there comrades. You touched during your theological gymnastics a topic dear to my heart: “Christian Worship”, a.k.a. Sunday Morning Music. I have spent almost ten years playing on worship teams and sadly only three years ago did I begin to notice the dual nature of Sunday Morning Music. (For the sake of brevity I will refer to Sunday Morning Music as SMM from here on out.) As I spent time regularly in the Holy Word, praying in prayer meetings, listening to speakers filled with the Holy Spirit, and teaching High School students I began to see before my very eyes the block of time that music began to occupy in Christian gatherings grow disproportionately to the time spent in prayer and plain simple fellowship and eating. Not only this; but the topic of musical worship infected daily conversation between church leaders like the spontaneous arrival of a viral pandemic creating riffs between spiritual leaders, some of which cannot be spanned. SMM was, and is, gnawing at the heart of Christendom. SMM has become something it was never intended to be. I understand the magical potency of music; I believe in it, it moves me just as much as the next man, but worship is supposed to move God, not me. Let me use an analogy however imperfect it is. There are two problems among many one may encounter when using a tool. One, if you do not know what the tool is for abuse in inevitable. Two, if you over use the tool, it will begin to wear out and cause more damage than the good that was intended by the wielder of said tool. This is merely my opinion, and my opinion is of little consequence in the grand scheme of things, but I believe that SMM has fallen victim to the two problems mentioned above. Sometimes, until a solution is found the best course of action is to just put down the tool for a while.

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  3. Bill said,

    May 24, 2009 at 6:07 am

  4. Bill said,

    May 24, 2009 at 6:08 am

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